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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 27, 2009 16:43:25 GMT -5
You and I see this...yet cepha cant...maybe he needs to speak to his priest about this...not sure what can open his eyes.
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Post by Jimmy B. on Jan 27, 2009 17:14:09 GMT -5
Chris Stigall with Bishop Finn on Obama & Catholic Voting (FOCA)
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Post by Jimmy B. on Jan 27, 2009 17:37:37 GMT -5
He like Father Corapi, so I wonder what he thinks about this video?
Father Corapi -Eleventh Hour Election Alert Part One
Now, Listen to Obama belittling, making fun of and minimizing the Bible, Christ, Christianity (Catholicism) and religion in general
He feels that it is wrong to “follow God’s edicts”; He believes… that, to base ones life on religion is “dangerous”….listen to him!
Obama, supports for infanticide, here -
More here -
And here-
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Post by watchman on Jan 27, 2009 21:08:46 GMT -5
Maybe cepha is one of them cafeteria catholics that he is always complaining about.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 27, 2009 21:42:03 GMT -5
lol... he is always calling me one(cafeteria catholic), but i by no means SUPPORT ABORTION OR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FUND IT! I have morals;)
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Post by Jimmy B. on Jan 27, 2009 23:40:21 GMT -5
Cepha has a little hippie in him but I know that he's pro-life...he just doesn't vote that way....why, I dunno....  |
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Post by Jimmy B. on Jan 27, 2009 23:58:24 GMT -5
Barack Obama Abortion Montage
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 9:49:20 GMT -5
Cepha has a little hippie in him but I know that he's pro-life...he just doesn't vote that way....why, I dunno.... Define how one votes pro life? (and don't come back with the lesser of two evils thing...that's been debunked by The Catholic Church) |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 9:50:41 GMT -5
Maybe cepha is one of them cafeteria catholics that he is always complaining about. Why would you say that when I voted according to The Catholic Church's standards? That if anything makes me completely in line "with" The Church and the opposite of a Cafeteria Catholic. But, I look forward to your answer to my question... |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 9:51:38 GMT -5
lol... he is always calling me one(cafeteria catholic), but i by no means SUPPORT ABORTION OR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO FUND IT! I have morals;) I guess you didn't vote for McCain then, huh? And whenever I called you "CC", it was for CradleCatholic, not "CafeteriaCatholic"! LOL! |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 9:57:28 GMT -5
OK, let's try this again. Catholics, read this and either dispute it or support it or claim nuetrality on it. Can Catholics Who Vote for Obama Still Receive Communion?
Editorial by John-Henry Westen
June 12, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - With an election in the United States looming, much is being made of the Catholic vote and what is moral for Catholics as they head to the voting booth. Pope Benedict XVI, just prior to his election to the pontificate, addressed the matter in a doctrinal note to the US Bishops Conference.
Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, in his capacity as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, intervened in a debate among the US Bishops on the issue of denying communion to pro-abortion politicians in 2004. Simply put, Cardinal Ratzinger said in his letter, titled "Worthiness to receive Holy Communion", that obstinately pro-abortion Catholic politicians, after being duly instructed and warned, "must" be denied Communion.
That same document by the man who is now Pope, suggested in a nota bene at the conclusion of the document that Catholic citizens who vote for politicians who support abortion also make themselves unworthy to receive Communion. "A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia," he wrote.
The Cardinal added: "When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons."
The key is that in order to vote for a pro-abortion politician and remain in good enough standing with Our Lord to be worthy to receive Him in Holy Communion, one must have "proportionate reasons". But what can be considered proportionate?
Could it be, as is often said, that because one candidate supports abortion and another, while being against abortion, supports a war effort or the death penalty, that that would be a "proportionate reason" to vote for the pro-abortion candidate over the anti-abortion one? Cardinal Ratzinger answers the question in his document.
"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia," explained the document. "For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."
One suggestion offered is that a Catholic may vote for a politician who supports abortion in very limited circumstances (for instance in cases of rape), if the only other viable candidate is one who supports abortion in most or all cases.
As Bishop Rene Henry Gracida, of Corpus Christi Texas, explained in September 2004: "Consider the case of a Catholic voter who must choose between three candidates: Kerry, who is completely for abortion on demand, Bush, who is in favor of very limited abortion, i.e., in favor of greatly restricting abortion and Peroutka, a candidate who is completely against abortion but who is universally recognized as being unelectable. The Catholic can vote for Peroutka, but that will probably only help ensure the election of Kerry. Therefore the Catholic voter has a proportionate reason to vote for Bush, since his vote might help to ensure the defeat of Kerry and might result in the saving of some innocent human lives."
Where does that logic come from? Pope John Paul II explained in his encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), "…when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects."
Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput has proposed this definition of proportionate. "What is a 'proportionate' reason when it comes to the abortion issue?," he wrote in January 2008. "It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life - which we most certainly will. If we're confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed."
See the full document by Cardinal Ratzinger here:
www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/apr/050419a.html |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:00:55 GMT -5
Obama wins back Catholic votePublished: November 06, 2008Incoming US President Barack Obama has won back a significant proportion of the Catholic vote previously lost to George Bush, electoral analysts say.
The International Herald Tribune quoted several religious experts saying that the swing in the Catholic vote in this year's election may be one of the more significant political developments, despite the emphasis that Democrats have put on attracting evangelical voters.
Although Kerry is Catholic, he won only 47 percent of Catholic voters, while Bush drew 52 percent. That represented a reversal from 2000 when Gore won 50 percent of Catholics and Bush won 47 percent.
On Tuesday, Catholics, who accounted for about a quarter of the electorate, supported Obama, at 54 percent, over McCain, at 45 percent.
www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=9996
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:03:03 GMT -5
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:05:38 GMT -5
You and I see this...yet cepha cant...maybe he needs to speak to his priest about this...not sure what can open his eyes. Maybe you actually need to go to a Church and talk to someone yourself about what The Church actually teaches. Google is "not" The Church. Is this true? www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0411fea4.asp |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:14:55 GMT -5
maybe you are not reading what i said.... YOU ARE EITHER CATHOLIC OR NOT, THATS WHAT YOU ALWAYS SAY. Now why on earth would you support anyone who is rep or dem that SUPPORTS ABORTION, CLEARLY NOT WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AGREES WITH?! By your own statement, you are "not" a Catholic if you voted for McCain because McCain supports abortion. Now, what does the Catholic Church teach? That a Catholic "can" vote for a pro-choice candidate if the reasons that they are voting for him have nothing to do with his stance on prolife issues and said Catholic can completely disagree with the candidate on such an issue. Why are you in such disagreement with The Catholic Church on this CC? Just accept The Catholic Church's teachings on it. Accept it. I let The Church tell me what my standing is with regards to President Hussein, not you. And, The Catholic Church has spoken. Accept it CC. Only The Church can judge me (even if you disagree with The Church, you can't judge me). Read what The Pope said on the matter of voting for a candidate who is prochoice (and thank God he did say this because if not, you'd be guilty of voting for McCain who is also believes in abortion too). And yes, McCain is relevant here because you are judging me and questioning my Catholicness based on my vote, yet you too voted for a prochoice candidate (which buries you with me if no exceptions are allowed). It's the take the log out of your own eye before you try to take the splinter out of mine. |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:20:07 GMT -5
The problem Cepha is that Abortion is a HUGE part of the Catholic Faith and being that you are sooo in line with the Church i would think that you would stand against him. He is trying to make it legal to let 13 year old have abortions without parental consent, he is also trying to make all Hospitals perform these which would lead to no more Catholic run hospitals, and i love the one i go to, great healthcare! What have "you" done to work against abortion besides complaining on a forum? Have you ever prayed before an abortion clinic? Have you ever talked women out of having abortions and counsoled them? Have you ever supported single mothers who chose to keep their babies financially? I have. I almost went to march on DC this January 22nd, but there was no way that I could get out of the situation I was in, so I couldn't make it (even though I had bus tickets to go with my local Church). I bet you haven't done anywhere near as much as I have with regards to abortion and I bet you only Teresa has done anything close to me while the rest of you haven't even come close to what I've done. Speak up...besides voting against Obama and complaining, what have you actively done? How have you physically helped any of these women? |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 29, 2009 10:22:14 GMT -5
Catholic League President Criticizes Obama On AbortionI know that you are Pro-Life...
We are talking about your candidate, Obama...that's the problem...He is an enemy of LIFE and of the Catholic Church! Come on Jimmy, how's about answering my questions for a chance? 1. How do you feel about McCain's Pro-Choice stances on abortion? 2. Did you endorse McCain's stances on abortion when you voted for him? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 29, 2009 16:17:34 GMT -5
OK, let's try this again. Catholics, read this and either dispute it or support it or claim nuetrality on it. Can Catholics Who Vote for Obama Still Receive Communion?
Editorial by John-Henry Westen
June 12, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - With an election in the United States looming, much is being made of the Catholic vote and what is moral for Catholics as they head to the voting booth. Pope Benedict XVI, just prior to his election to the pontificate, addressed the matter in a doctrinal note to the US Bishops Conference.
Then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, in his capacity as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, intervened in a debate among the US Bishops on the issue of denying communion to pro-abortion politicians in 2004. Simply put, Cardinal Ratzinger said in his letter, titled "Worthiness to receive Holy Communion", that obstinately pro-abortion Catholic politicians, after being duly instructed and warned, "must" be denied Communion.
That same document by the man who is now Pope, suggested in a nota bene at the conclusion of the document that Catholic citizens who vote for politicians who support abortion also make themselves unworthy to receive Communion. "A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate's permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia," he wrote.
The Cardinal added: "When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons."
The key is that in order to vote for a pro-abortion politician and remain in good enough standing with Our Lord to be worthy to receive Him in Holy Communion, one must have "proportionate reasons". But what can be considered proportionate?
Could it be, as is often said, that because one candidate supports abortion and another, while being against abortion, supports a war effort or the death penalty, that that would be a "proportionate reason" to vote for the pro-abortion candidate over the anti-abortion one? Cardinal Ratzinger answers the question in his document.
"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia," explained the document. "For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia."
One suggestion offered is that a Catholic may vote for a politician who supports abortion in very limited circumstances (for instance in cases of rape), if the only other viable candidate is one who supports abortion in most or all cases.
As Bishop Rene Henry Gracida, of Corpus Christi Texas, explained in September 2004: "Consider the case of a Catholic voter who must choose between three candidates: Kerry, who is completely for abortion on demand, Bush, who is in favor of very limited abortion, i.e., in favor of greatly restricting abortion and Peroutka, a candidate who is completely against abortion but who is universally recognized as being unelectable. The Catholic can vote for Peroutka, but that will probably only help ensure the election of Kerry. Therefore the Catholic voter has a proportionate reason to vote for Bush, since his vote might help to ensure the defeat of Kerry and might result in the saving of some innocent human lives."
Where does that logic come from? Pope John Paul II explained in his encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), "…when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects."
Denver Archbishop Charles Chaput has proposed this definition of proportionate. "What is a 'proportionate' reason when it comes to the abortion issue?," he wrote in January 2008. "It's the kind of reason we will be able to explain, with a clean heart, to the victims of abortion when we meet them face to face in the next life - which we most certainly will. If we're confident that these victims will accept our motives as something more than an alibi, then we can proceed."
See the full document by Cardinal Ratzinger here:
www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2005/apr/050419a.htmlCheck out the date on this article, why dont you pull something current. Besides IF the Catholic Church were for Obama and his abortion view, they would not shut down the hospitals dont you think. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 29, 2009 16:20:00 GMT -5
You and I see this...yet cepha cant...maybe he needs to speak to his priest about this...not sure what can open his eyes. Maybe you actually need to go to a Church and talk to someone yourself about what The Church actually teaches. Google is "not" The Church. Is this true? www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0411fea4.aspWho said anything about google?  I know that one core belief and stance of the Catholic Church is not to support abortion, so...when you actively support Obama, it is saying that you support indirectly abortion. I dont see who you dont see this. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 29, 2009 16:23:42 GMT -5
The problem Cepha is that Abortion is a HUGE part of the Catholic Faith and being that you are sooo in line with the Church i would think that you would stand against him. He is trying to make it legal to let 13 year old have abortions without parental consent, he is also trying to make all Hospitals perform these which would lead to no more Catholic run hospitals, and i love the one i go to, great healthcare! What have "you" done to work against abortion besides complaining on a forum? Have you ever prayed before an abortion clinic? Have you ever talked women out of having abortions and counsoled them? Have you ever supported single mothers who chose to keep their babies financially? I have. I almost went to march on DC this January 22nd, but there was no way that I could get out of the situation I was in, so I couldn't make it (even though I had bus tickets to go with my local Church). I bet you haven't done anywhere near as much as I have with regards to abortion and I bet you only Teresa has done anything close to me while the rest of you haven't even come close to what I've done. Speak up...besides voting against Obama and complaining, what have you actively done? How have you physically helped any of these women? Yes i have talked a friend out of abortion, and told another friend that if she had one she would be totally wrong. So yes, i do preach this in my personal life, not just on this board. I dunno, i just cant believe in killing an innocent baby, i have a child and it hurts my heart to see these things happening. |
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