|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 1, 2009 16:23:50 GMT -5
PS...I love this poll!
Check out those of us who voted and how the vote is going!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 15:40:59 GMT -5
Cepha...aka... "the Confused Catholic", wrote -
"You could try to parse Pro-Life all you want to, but ...
Cepha,
Your own post here contradicts your opinion here -
One suggestion offered is that a Catholic may vote for a politician who supports abortion in very limited circumstances (for instance in cases of rape)…(Like, John Mc Cain), if the only other viable candidate is one who supports abortion in most or all cases…. (Like, Obama).
In your opinion, is Pope John Paul II trying to “parse” the Pro-Life issue, when he said:
Pope John Paul II explained in his encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), "…when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and morality
Here are examples of proportionate reasons:
"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia,"
"Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia,” explained the document. "For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion.
As a Catholic, you voted for the wrong candidate.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 15:51:10 GMT -5
The fact that 54% of the Catholics in America voted for a radical like Obama is scary and sends the wrong message to the rest of the Observant Catholics, worldwide. There are many confused Catholics in this country and at this rate, it looks like the Catholic Church is in big trouble in this country....Democrat first....Catholic second...How sad. Jimmy, Would you say that you are out of line of what most American Catholics believe in voting for Obama? Also, who kills the babies in abortions? Those lawmakers that made it legal? The politicians who appointed them? The politicians who do nothing to stop it? Cepha, You keep reaching into the past to try to defend your vote... You wrote - "Those lawmakers that made it legal?"They didn't run for President in this last election, although, the guy that you voted for is trying to pass FOCA.... You wrote - "The politicians who appointed them?"They didn't run for President in this last election either, although, Obama will appoint Pro-Abortion Judges, at every opportunity! You wrote - "The politicians who do nothing to stop it?"Not only, is Obama not "stopping it" (abortion), he has turned back the clock on Pro-Life protections! |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 16:15:37 GMT -5
Why Catholics Cannot Vote For "Pro-Choice" Politicians / Pro-Life Video
Are You Truly Catholic?
BornAliveTruth.org Gianna ad
Obama is apposed to the BAIPA
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA IS A BABY KILLER PARTIAL BIRTH ABORTION
Obama The Baby Killer - Infanticide
Alan Keyes on Obama's support for infanticide
Obama isn't just Pro-Abortion...his views and votes on abortion are radical....
|
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 17:09:26 GMT -5
Cepha...aka... "the Confused Catholic", wrote - That's not nice. Calling me names is not neccessary.  Firstly, let the record reflect that you added those names in there (they are not in the original quote). 2nd of all, that statment literally says that this is a "suggestion" that is "offered", not a mandate. Do you see it as a mandate? On top of that, this is a commentary on the statement, not the actual statement itself. Were you aware of this when you posted it? And, a candidate (like McCain) can't be Pro-Life if he believes in abortion. Unless you believe that a person can support abortion and still be Pro-Life...do you (and I don't mean "more Pro-Life than the worst case scenario", but literally plain old Pro-Life)? In your opinion, is Pope John Paul II trying to “parse” the Pro-Life issue, when he said: Kind of "convenient" with regards to your case to have left out what came right after that statement you quoted, ah? " John Paul indicates that a lawmaker can vote for a more restrictive abortion law in such circumstances, but he adds two new conditions: It can be done only if (4) "it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law," and (5) the lawmaker’s "absolute personal opposition to procured abortion [is] well known."
Without the first of these conditions, the lawmaker shouldn’t be voting for the more restrictive law at all. He should work at once to overturn or abrogate the existing pro-abortion law or to stop the passage of a proposed law permitting abortion." Why'd you leave " that part" out? www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0410bt.aspNot according to the Voter's Guide.  By the way...John McCain believes in Capitol Punishment...what does that make the candidate "you" voted for? John McCain supports the death penaltyglassbooth.org/explore/index/john-mccain/10/crime-and-punishment/3/Who was for the war again? Who was against the war? Which one did you vote for? The Roman Catholic Church, led by Pope John Paul II, opposed the U.S.-led war in Iraq. www.americancatholic.org/News/JustWar/Iraq/www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.htmlCardinal Laghi said that the war with Iraq was unjust and illegal. National Catholic Reporter, Mar. 14, 2003 74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:FanwQot9JGsJ:www.regis.edu/content/alum/pdf/Catholicism%2520in%2520the%2520News%2520Vol%25201%2520number%25205.pdf+Cardinal+Martino+calls+iraq+war+unjust&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 17:16:03 GMT -5
Here is the funny thing….Catholics who voted for Obama …and are now trying to defend their vote, because of Obama’s radical stance on abortion, Imply and want us to believe that if only McCain was “100% Pro-Life” and if Mc Cain was apposed to the Iraq War, that they would have voted for him, instead of Obama.....Yeah right.
Isn’t Honesty one of the main tenants of Christianity?
Cepha, have you signed the petition, passed-out at Catholic parishes, which apposes Obama’s and the Democrat’s position on FOCA?
If not, why not?
Have you emailed your President (Obama), to let him know that you voted for him but you are apposed to his stance on abortion?
If not. Why not?
Let’s be honest here. You didn’t vote for Obama because you believed that Obama and Mc Cain, "both supported Abortion".
In this last election, many Catholics chose their pocket book, and/or their Political Party over their Catholic Church and their religious beliefs.
They chose Obama over LIFE.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 17:18:15 GMT -5
Cepha...aka... "the Confused Catholic", wrote - That's not nice. Calling me names is not neccessary. Sorry about that buddy, I wasn't calling you names, I was trying to make a point, all Catholics who voted for Obama are - "Confused Catholics". |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 17:19:26 GMT -5
Is it just me or did you notice that the two questions you conveniently chose "not" to answer have nothing to do with the past nor with my trying to defend my vote? 1. Would you say that you are out of line of what most American Catholics believe in voting for Obama? 2. Also, who kills the babies in abortions? So, care to give these two questions a shot this time? |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 17:20:41 GMT -5
That's not nice. Calling me names is not neccessary. Sorry about that buddy, I wasn't calling you names, I was trying to make a point, all Catholics who voted for Obama are - "Confused Catholics". Ok. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 17:26:58 GMT -5
Here is the funny thing….Catholics who voted for Obama …and are now trying to defend their vote, because of Obama’s radical stance on abortion, Imply and want us to believe that if only McCain was “100% Pro-Life” and if Mc Cain was apposed to the Iraq War, that they would have voted for him, instead of Obama.....Yeah right. Isn’t Honesty one of the main tenants of Christianity? Cepha, have you signed the petition, passed-out at Catholic parishes, which apposes Obama’s and the Democrat’s position on FOCA? If not, why not? Have you emailed your President (Obama), to let him know that you voted for him but you are apposed to his stance on abortion? If not. Why not? Let’s be honest here. You didn’t vote for Obama because you believed that Obama and Mc Cain, "both supported Abortion". In this last election, many Catholics chose their pocket book, and/or their Political Party over their Catholic Church and their religious beliefs. They chose Obama over LIFE. Yes, I signed a Petition, but it was an online Petition that was emailed to President Obama. Not in my parish though...I signed a Protestant/Catholic combined Petition. As for me, I could've never have voted for McCain. As the elections have proven, he never had what it took to win. He was the weaker of the two candidates according to the Democratic vote of The American People. And I would've never voted for the Republican Party that destroyed our economy and gave tax breaks to big oil companies in a time of crisis where they were making record breaking profits...but hey, that's what happens when you put a big business oil man in the White House. My vote had nothing to do with abortion. Both Candidates are wrong on abortion...100%. I don't believe in that "McCain is more right"...that's like being a "little bit" pregnant in my book! LOL! Obama is definitely wrong, but at least he didn't lie and call himself or try to pass himself off as being Pro-Life. How can McCain be "proud" of his Pro-Life record, yet still support abortion? That's why he lost...he wasn't giving the American People "straight talk". |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 17:41:24 GMT -5
Cepha...aka... "the Confused Catholic", wrote - That's not nice. Calling me names is not neccessary. Firstly, let the record reflect that you added those names in there (they are not in the original quote). 2nd of all, that statment literally says that this is a "suggestion" that is "offered", not a mandate. Do you see it as a mandate? On top of that, this is a commentary on the statement, not the actual statement itself. Were you aware of this when you posted it? And, a candidate (like McCain) can't be Pro-Life if he believes in abortion. Unless you believe that a person can support abortion and still be Pro-Life...do you (and I don't mean "more Pro-Life than the worst case scenario", but literally plain old Pro-Life)? In your opinion, is Pope John Paul II trying to “parse” the Pro-Life issue, when he said: Kind of "convenient" with regards to your case to have left out what came right after that statement you quoted, ah? " John Paul indicates that a lawmaker can vote for a more restrictive abortion law in such circumstances, but he adds two new conditions: It can be done only if (4) "it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law," and (5) the lawmaker’s "absolute personal opposition to procured abortion [is] well known."
Without the first of these conditions, the lawmaker shouldn’t be voting for the more restrictive law at all. He should work at once to overturn or abrogate the existing pro-abortion law or to stop the passage of a proposed law permitting abortion." Why'd you leave " that part" out? www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0410bt.aspNot according to the Voter's Guide. By the way...John McCain believes in Capitol Punishment...what does that make the candidate "you" voted for? John McCain supports the death penaltyglassbooth.org/explore/index/john-mccain/10/crime-and-punishment/3/Who was for the war again? Who was against the war? Which one did you vote for? The Roman Catholic Church, led by Pope John Paul II, opposed the U.S.-led war in Iraq. www.americancatholic.org/News/JustWar/Iraq/www.cjd.org/paper/jp2war.htmlCardinal Laghi said that the war with Iraq was unjust and illegal. National Catholic Reporter, Mar. 14, 2003 74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:FanwQot9JGsJ:www.regis.edu/content/alum/pdf/Catholicism%2520in%2520the%2520News%2520Vol%25201%2520number%25205.pdf+Cardinal+Martino+calls+iraq+war+unjust&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=usCepha, I wasn't calling you names... all Catholics who voted for Obama are "Confused Catholics"! You wrote - "Firstly, let the record reflect that you added those names in there (they are not in the original quote)."Lol… you are funny Cepha...that's why I put them in parenthesis’ and I used a different color. The full post, is on this thread for everyone to see. Context is everything and I am afraid that you won’t grasp the true context, pointed out here, regardless of how it is posted…because you are blinded by your own ideological views ...I tried though…. One of these days, you’ll see who Obama, really is. Go back and read the quote that you posted here, with an opened mind and in an unbiased manner and you will see that you have already posted the answer. The answers can be found in your own post! How does it feel, as a Catholic, to try to defend and justify your vote and Obama's radical position on abortion, by attempting to minimize Obama's, all-out War Against the Unborn? Whether you can see it or not... that's what you are doing here. And that is the way, many Pro-Life Catholics will view your comments. You don't want that, do you? |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 18:03:43 GMT -5
What am I "not" seeing now? That's he's Pro-Choice? That he's Anti-Unjust-War? Who is he "really" then since I'm not seeing him now? LOL! Fill in the blanks you "think" you see!   I don't have to defend my vote. I followed the Catholic Voting Guide. And, I've never attempted to minimize Obama's Pro-Choice stances...show me where if I have? I always said it...he's 100% wrong on abortion/Pro-Choice stances. No, that's how "you" see it, but any reasonable person would see that I followed The Church's guidlines that said that I can vote for a Pro-Choice Candidate as long as it wasn't for his Pro-Choice stance that I was voting for. As for Pro-Life Catholics...I didn't know there was such a sect. In my opinions, "real" Catholics are Pro-Life period (there's no such thing as a "Pro-Choice Catholic" or an "almost Pro-Life Catholic"...you're either Pro-Life or Pro-Choice period). A Catholic can't be anything "but" Pro-Life. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 2, 2009 18:05:48 GMT -5
Anyday now... 1. Would you say that you are out of line of what most American Catholics believe in voting for Obama? 2. Also, who kills the babies in abortions? |
|
|
|
Post by cradlecathlic27 on Feb 2, 2009 23:03:47 GMT -5
No we are not out of line because most americans voted for obama... and docters kill the babies, but who voted to keep lettting them do it? Who is wanting to help fund them? Who is making it one of there main objectives during presidency. He could have just left it the way it was, but oh no, he wants to make abortions more easily to happen, fund them and practicly rooting for them. They dont want people having babies or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 23:17:38 GMT -5
You Wrote - No, that's how "you" see it, but any reasonable person would see that I followed The Church's guidlines....Oh Really... go back and take a look at the first couple of pages on this thread... Appearently I'm not the only "unreasonable" Catholic poster here. Let's see.... cradlecathlic27 wrote - Cepha i see that you dont have much to say about all these videos. Was it to overwhealming? Did you feel like, just maybe im wrong?AND - Well, the way he is soo about serving the Church, i would think he would hold Obama acountable for these things. But it does look like all he can do is poke fun of our past administration...avoiding the issue at hand...reminds me of some people i know AND - maybe you are not reading what i said.... YOU ARE EITHER CATHOLIC OR NOT,...AND - You and I see this...yet cepha cant...maybe he needs to speak to his priest about this...not sure what can open his eyes. AND - Well, if john mccain is so prochoice that he would make his first week in office dedicated to funding abortions and making it legal for 13yr olds have them without parental consent, then i would DEFENITLY not vote for him, and i will defenitly remember this next election. watchman wrote - Maybe cepha is one of them cafeteria catholics that he is always complaining about. The only Catholics who agree with you are the confused Catholics or Catholics who are not observant. Study’s show that the majority of "Catholics" who voted for Obama, were the ones who didn't attend Mass regularly. The same is true for other Christians. Yet, according to you, I am the only one who "see's it that why"  The Catholic Church, The Catholic Pope, Bishops and other observant Catholics nationwide and worldwide, "see it" the same way that I do. The President of the Catholic League "see's it the way" that I do. Father Corapi, "see's it" the way that I do...I posted his videos here for you to see with your own eyes. All of the organizations, who posted the videos that I have provided here, "see it" the way I do. So, according to you...are we all wrong??? I think you might be surprised to learn how many "unreasonable" Catholics there are out there, who disagree with you on this subject. That is why we are having this discussion. There are "enough" people who “see it” the way that I do, that Obama doesn’t have a chance in the next election. Watch Fox News and you'll see how many Catholics, "see it" the way that I do. Cepha...fight it....walk towards the light.... Bill Clinton was Pro-Abortion and yet, I don't remember, Catholic parishes passing out petitions to fight a law that he was trying to pass.... Then again, Clinton wasn't trying to pass FOCA. The scary thing is….now, since the Democrats are in complete control, with the House, the Senate and the White House, there are no “Check and Balances” in place, to fight for the unborn and that is because of voters… who voted the Democrats in power in this last election. But. You don’t seem to have a problem with the lack of “Check and Balances” in our system. We are all in big trouble, especially the unborn. |
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 23:36:10 GMT -5
The only reason the Catholic Church in America hasn't been more aggressive with the Democrats on these moral issues, is because the Democrats have already moved, to try and take away the Church's tax exemption...And that's the only reason.
That is the only way that Socialism and Communism works...Silence the Church and Silence apposition media....Does the "Fairness Doctrine" ring a bell....
|
|
|
|
Post by cradlecathlic27 on Feb 2, 2009 23:39:29 GMT -5
Yeah, i did not even think about that, but like cepha has said in the past, most self proclaiming Catholics are not even good catholics and hardly attend church. So maybe that is why alot of cathlics voted that way.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimmy B. on Feb 2, 2009 23:49:01 GMT -5
Among voters who told the exit poll that they attend church once a week, McCain defeated Obama, overwhelming.
Even, the liberal media outlets, including CNN, reported these polling results.
Obama, couldn't win over these voters, even with a bad economy and an unpoular war.
Under normal circumstance, Obama wouldn't have had a chance.
In the next election, the Dem's will have no one to blame but themselves. Obama, Palosi, Reid, Frank and the other radical liberals are killing the Democratic Party.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 3, 2009 19:27:49 GMT -5
Among voters who told the exit poll that they attend church once a week, McCain defeated Obama, overwhelming.Even, the liberal media outlets, including CNN, reported these polling results. Obama, couldn't win over these voters, even with a bad economy and an unpoular war. Under normal circumstance, Obama wouldn't have had a chance. In the next election, the Dem's will have no one to blame but themselves. Obama, Palosi, Reid, Frank and the other radical liberals are killing the Democratic Party. LOL! Dang! It hasn't even been 3 weeks and Bush's seat is still warm and you're already living in 2012? I feel sorry for you. This is going to be the longest for years of your life (just like the last 8 have been of mine). Well, your gripe is with The American People now brother. Without the help of The American Left Wing Liberal Media and the votes put forth by the American public, things wouldn't be the way they are. We as a country have spoken and the majority have chosen...  |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Feb 3, 2009 19:31:35 GMT -5
Yeah, i did not even think about that, but like cepha has said in the past, most self proclaiming Catholics are not even good catholics and hardly attend church. So maybe that is why alot of cathlics voted that way. Yep...last I heard the numbers were like only 30% of Catholics attend Church regularly. It is what it is...like I said, this wouldn't happen in a Catholic Country, but we don't live in a Catholic Country. It's said that the statment issued by the American Bishops was the deciding factor on the Catholic vote going to President Obama...it cleared the way for folks like me to vote for him with The Catholic Church's approval. That means that if I am wrong, it was because I was misled by that document put out by The Catholic Church and therefore, in God's eyes, I am guilty of listening to His Church. |
|
The Catholic Church, The Catholic Pope, Bishops and other observant Catholics nationwide and worldwide, "see it" the same way that I do. The President of the Catholic League "see's it the way" that I do.