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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:39:30 GMT -5
Sorry but I came to my conclusion on my own, and ask my pastor today what he though and his opinion was in agreement with mine i respect him very much, and since we came to the same conclusion separately. I am confidant we are correct. You can believe as you wish, and so will I Ahhh..."personal" interpretation. ;D |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:41:14 GMT -5
[ It doesn't say the rich man looked up, it says he lifted his eyes which could just mean he opened his eyes. It just says the rich man saw Lazarus afar off. It doesn't say Lazarus was above him. No, then it would've said "he lifted his eyelids". Like this:  |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 13:41:53 GMT -5
More like revelation than interpretation. You see I believe God not man.
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:43:09 GMT -5
Watchman, You do believe in the Holy Trinity, right? Did not Jesus say "I and the Father are one"? Ok, so why is it hard to accept that Jesus told the man on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" and yet He Himself descended to Hell(Prison). God is One God, not 3 separate gods. Look up references for the word "prison" in scripture. You will never see it described as being even close to something good. When Jesus talked about Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus was not the one in "prison". Did Jesus suffer only physically? No, He suffered in mind, body and spirit. He experienced physical death for us and spiritual death for us. I agree with Watchman the thief on the cross went to paradise which is the same as Abraham's Bosom and then after 40 days Abrahams Bosom moved to Heaven. God lives in AB?  Since when did AB become Heaven? Didn't Heaven exist before AB? Isn't Heaven God's Kingdom? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:44:27 GMT -5
Alfie misunderstand Revelation 20 when it says that Hell is cast into the lake of fire. She believe Hell is not Hell the lake of fire is. However there are people in Hell now and they along with Hell itself will be cast into the lake of fire at the White Throne Judgment. No, people go to Hades where they await the White Throne Judgement, then they are thrown into Hell. Hades is discribed as a dark shadowy place... not fire. And why would God yank people out of Hell for judgement when they are already there? So Purgatory don't exist because The Bible doesn't speak of a "waiting" place, but Hades does? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:44:57 GMT -5
Exactly! I think the Diadiche says Jesus went to Hell, which makes no sense. There would be no reason for Jesus to go to either Hell or Hades because it's too late for these people anyway. I agree with you alfie that Jesus did not go to hell, so explain to me what was the prison that Jesus went to when He died. 1st Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; So where did Jesus "descend" to if not hell? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:47:28 GMT -5
Can you show me that in The Bible? Where this "paradise" is called AB? John 3:13 says No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. Jesus went to Paradise (Abraham's Boson) until he ascended to heaven. So! You admit it! No one could go to Heaven until Jesus died on The Cross! That would include Elijah then, right? And Moses? Yet, The Bible never, I repeat, never states that anyone went to AB except for one man...Lazarus! For you Sola Scripturists...where in The Bible does it literally say "(enter name other than Lazarus here) went to AB"? (If it's in The Bible, you should be able to quote it with the words "Abarham's Bosom" in it...otherwise, it's an unbiblical belief) |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 13:47:55 GMT -5
I agree with Watchman the thief on the cross went to paradise which is the same as Abraham's Bosom and then after 40 days Abrahams Bosom moved to Heaven. God lives in AB? Since when did AB become Heaven? Didn't Heaven exist before AB? Isn't Heaven God's Kingdom? You need to read peoples posts more closely. Alfie did not say A.B became heaven, she said it went to heaven. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 13:48:08 GMT -5
LMCBO
Ha!!
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:48:21 GMT -5
More like revelation than interpretation. You see I believe God not man. So, you have "personal" revelation? That's how you "interpret" it? ;D |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 13:48:28 GMT -5
I agree with you alfie that Jesus did not go to hell, so explain to me what was the prison that Jesus went to when He died. 1st Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; So where did Jesus "descend" to if not hell? Abraham's Bosom |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 13:49:16 GMT -5
More like revelation than interpretation. You see I believe God not man. So, you have "personal" revelation? That's how you "interpret" it? ;D I do not interpret scripture I believe it. |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:50:56 GMT -5
God lives in AB? Since when did AB become Heaven? Didn't Heaven exist before AB? Isn't Heaven God's Kingdom? You need to read peoples posts more closely. Alfie did not say A.B became heaven, she said it went to heaven. You need to post the proof I asked you for last week where you said that Jesus went to AB (even though The Bible never said that). ;D And, she said that AB " moved" to Heaven, right? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:52:23 GMT -5
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 13:54:15 GMT -5
So ridiculous. Where does the Bible say that's where Jesus went?
You think Abraham and Lazarus were in a prison(aka, a pit, a jail, torture chamber, chained, confined, punished etc)?
And you think that this "prison" is the same as "paradise"?
How about looking at the "plain meaning" of the words "paradise" and "prison"!
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 13:57:33 GMT -5
So where did Jesus "descend" to if not hell? Abraham's Bosom AB is "below"? Where did you get this information, that AB is "below"? Scripture? Here's what The Bible says: Luke 16:22-23 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.If AB is "below", then how could the rich man look "up"? And since when do angels carry people off "below"? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:01:55 GMT -5
So, you have "personal" revelation? That's how you "interpret" it? ;D I do not interpret scripture I believe it. Only when you agree with it. For example, you don't believe that the unsaved spouse is made "holy" as The Bible states in 1 Corinthians 7:14. I'm sure you also don't agree that children are made "holy" by their parents salvation, right? Or, that the household of the Roman who was baptized (even though The Bible doesn't say they themselves were baptized) was saved too, right? That's all "in The Bible", but you don't believe those verses, right? But hey, that's ok. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:02:29 GMT -5
So, let me see if I understand your theory watchman. (Step by step)
1. Jesus died on the cross
2. He went to "prison"--not hell, actually it was paradise--in the belly of the earth.
3. Jesus was with the man on the cross in the paradise section of the prison for a little while
4. Jesus preached to the imprisoned spirits there--Abraham was among them in a separate chamber off to the side, sort of up, but not too far up because it was the belly of the earth.
5. ? Does something else happen at this point? I don't remember if you said something happened here
6. Jesus was resurrected from "paradise/prison"
7. Jesus leaves Abraham, Lazarus, all the righteous, the man on the cross down in the earth for 40 days until....
7. Jesus ascended to Heaven
8. The "paradise section" of the prison ascended up with Jesus(invisibly of course)
Is that correct for what your interpretation is?
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:04:02 GMT -5
So ridiculous. Where does the Bible say that's where Jesus went? You think Abraham and Lazarus were in a prison(aka, a pit, a jail, torture chamber, chained, confined, punished etc)? And you think that this "prison" is the same as "paradise"? How about looking at the "plain meaning" of the words "paradise" and "prison"! I've been asking him this for weeks. Still, no scripture that says that Jesus went to AB. Just conjecture. Isn't it "unbiblical" to believe something that isn't stated specifically "in The Bible" for Sola Scripturists? |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:06:27 GMT -5
Wait a second....
Where in the Bible does it give a list of what books should be in the Bible? Oy vey!
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